Curse

EverBlue · Jul 18, 2005, 12:18 AM // 00:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Talesin Darkbriar

/steers the topic back on subject...

The main idea of charging a monthly fee (as described above) is that it rids the game of many (if not most) of the undesirable people who are not playing Guild Wars to enjoy it, but rather to cause the grief of everyone else present.
Plenty of posts here regarding this. It's common.

In California, we have some really nice parks and they used to be free admission.
After years of people defacing monuments, vandalizing park property and features, and generally making asses of themselves to everyone else's detriment, the parks instituted a entrance fee.

Problem solved.

You see, griefers on a whole don't want to pay a fee to destroy something for everyone else. They'd rather go where its free admission.

Talesin

And think of all the great players you'd lose as well. If GW had a fee, I don't think it would last much longer. It would fall into rank with all those other MMOs that didn't make the cut, example: Shadowbane.

Hanok Odbrook · Jul 18, 2005, 12:38 AM // 00:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Talesin Darkbriar

Lol~! Well I knew I was opening a can of radioactive worms with this topic; thank you all for keeping the flamethrowers on "low" setting.

Does anyone have some other ideas or solutions to put some intelligence back into the overall gaming community? I'd love to hear them.

Talesin

Unfortunately, there's no way to put intelligence into the the gaming community as there's very little intelligence (common sense and courtesy is really more appropriate), in the human race as a whole. Just work one weekend in a big retail store, especially in any major city, and you'll wonder how "civilized" and "human beings" could ever be used together.

Charging a fee would be totally against what the creators of GW intended this game to be - a cooperative playing experience for the casual gamer. I have a very limited amount of time to dedicate to game playing, and charging a fee would be unfair to those like me who only play a few hours a week.

Just as in everyday life, we have to deal with rude, stupid people. Unfortunately, virtual life will never be any different.

Hanok Odbrook
Real Millennium Group Guild
http://www.realmillenniumgroup.com/guild.html
Truth * Knowledge * Peace

Talesin Darkbriar · Jul 18, 2005, 10:31 PM // 22:31

With the possible exception of Old Warrior Dood, nobody had any ideas, just a lot of bile and angst at my "audacity" for suggesting something to try and remove some of the negativity from the current population.
Again, criticism is easy, solutions are difficult. Respond as desired.

I knew when I authored this thread that I was wide open for any cheap shots people wanted to take, and several of you took careful aim. No problem, water off a ducks back as they say. I don't see any of you authoring any posts on anything substantial - quite the contrary actually.

And still, the problem remains; a large populace of rude, crude, unskilled, and arrogant players making every attempt to destroy the online entertainment for everyone else.

There isn't a session I play that doesn't go by without encountering someone doing something that would recieve a permanent ban by ANet or any other game - yet ANet's current stance is to let us "police ourselves" by sending in pictures and log files to them.

I'm a huge fan of proactive and preemptive policy - not "wait until the murder occurs, then try to find justice."
That's just lame no matter how you try to spin it.

I have reported literally dozens of violations, and strangely enough, some of the worst violators still remain, while others (that simply had revolting names) are removed altogether.
Moral: It's ok to be a complete exploiting, scamming jerkwad, but you'd better not have a nasty name!

I have finally given up reporting anyone because it would take most of my time. I'd rather just try to enjoy the game - so as one poster suggested, I turn off all chat and simply ignore EVERYONE.

Then people bitch about the lousy community...
Does anyone else see a problem here?

I propose that ANet's current solution to negative and illegal gameplay is an unacceptable one. I'm all ears regarding YOUR solutions to it.

I can't wait to be impressed by your ideas!

Regards,

Talesin

Yunalesca · Jul 18, 2005, 10:46 PM // 22:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Talesin Darkbriar

/steers the topic back on subject...

You see, griefers on a whole don't want to pay a fee to destroy something for everyone else. They'd rather go where its free admission.

Talesin

Why would they pay the initial fee of 50 bucks in the first place if they just wanted to 'ruin your gaming experience'? There are going ot be idiots on and off, fee or no fee, whether you like it or not.

Talesin Darkbriar · Jul 18, 2005, 10:51 PM // 22:51

A griefer is a person who can only derive pleasure, satisfaction, or entertainment from the misfortune and misery of others.
A true griefer does not consider money or fees an obstacle, but many do. Like bullies in a schoolyard, they go after the easy prey - not that which may prove difficult.

Yen-lo-wang · Jul 18, 2005, 10:53 PM // 22:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by silvertemplar

A.Net will firstly have to TOTALLY revamp PvE , essentially you will be paying a monthly fee for the PvP part of the game for it's the only part that will last you longer than 2 months [and even then, it is like paying a monthly fee to play Unreal Tournament...]. They will be forced to raise the level cap, remove instant travel, remove/change the linear mission system into freeform travel. Possibly change the PvE instanced zones effect to somehow include non-grouped players [i.e. throwing at least 2 groups into the same instance , with a moderate respawn system]. Totally redoing the communication system to allow proper trading and auctioning and various other activities. Have to bring back Grinding and Farming, change how armor/items/weapons are traded and generated....goes on and on?

... and then you would be left with... WoW...

Which is exactly what GuildWars ISN'T which is EXACTLY why I'm playing it instead.

A monthly would remove SOME of the griefers, not MANY and definately not MOST. While it's a good idea and a great theory, it's just some people's nature to bitch about everything in sight.

I do definately support the idea of helping A-Net increase funding, however.

Spartan2 · Jul 18, 2005, 10:58 PM // 22:58

Talesin Darkbriar, thanks for taking the plunge to at least suggest something. While I feel that the community has spiraled out of control for the worse, I do not see putting a monthly fee as something ArenaNet would like to steer the game towards.

I have also seen the ups and downs of the community: childrens' ignorant mouths running rampant, players using names they would never want their mothers to call them by, and etc.

I feel the community has gotten a bit better as time has gone on. Just keep taking screenshots and reporting those in violation when you find time to do so.

One way to crack down extremely hard as apart of the self-policing players in the community on those that violate is to make a small comment on how you reported someone everyonce in a while. Some might think this is vile, that baiting others to be stupid is as evil as being stupid yourself; well, it works plenty well on acquiring multitudes of screenshots to email to ArenaNet violation report. If the mods do not agree with this tip and would think it better that it remain unsaid, remove this final paragraph because this could possibly fall under "Bringing Unwanted Attention to players in-game." I would not want any people good of heart trying to get rid of the scums that plagues GuildWars to be swept out for a mistake.

Eder · Jul 18, 2005, 11:23 PM // 23:23

I gotta agree with Spartan here. Reporting people who violate the rules is a better way to enforce the rules than charging a monthly fee to play the game (and defeating half of the game's purpose in the process).

Furthermore, as Yen-lo-wang said, a fee would remove some of the griefers, but hardly most of them.

And honestly... if you guys are suggesting that games which do have monthly fees have significantly less idiots than GW, we've been paying for different games.

SOT · Jul 19, 2005, 03:37 AM // 03:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Talesin Darkbriar

I knew when I authored this thread that I was wide open for any cheap shots people wanted to take, and several of you took careful aim. No problem, water off a ducks back as they say. I don't see any of you authoring any posts on anything substantial - quite the contrary actually.

And yet your post was flame bait from the get-go which means you had no idea in store for all us "idiots" either. Imagine that.

Making a blanket statement that a non-fee based MMO needs to swap horses because 99% of us are all morons in your opinion is not an idea, it is a flame bait post.

You still have not explained to me about what griefers are doing to you to make you feel this course of action on the part of Anet is a wise one. I am still waiting for a detailed instance where you simply COULD NOT avoid a "moron" and their behavior.

Sparring aside, I am enjoying the amount of intelligent thought that went into all these posts.

CaptainGuru · Jul 19, 2005, 03:40 AM // 03:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by SOT

And yet your post was flame bait from the get-go which means you had no idea in store for all us "idiots" either. Imagine that.

Making a blanket statement that a non-fee based MMO needs to swap horses because 99% of us are all morons in your opinion is not an idea, it is a flame bait post.

You still have not explained to me about what griefers are doing to you to make you feel this course of action on the part of Anet is a wise one. I am still waiting for a detailed instance where you simply COULD NOT avoid a "moron" and their behavior.

Sparring aside, I am enjoying the amount of intelligent thought that went into all these posts.

I believe you mean troll post, but I think the poster had good intention, he did't realize the problem that the idea would create if it was applied so cut him some slack.

emil knight · Jul 19, 2005, 03:42 AM // 03:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Talesin Darkbriar

And still, the problem remains; a large populace of rude, crude, unskilled, and arrogant players making every attempt to destroy the online entertainment for everyone else.
Talesin

Rude, crude and arrogant I understand... but unskilled? So you're saying if a person is a "n00b" they shouldn't be allowed to play with you or worse yet... be charged a fee for it?

Talesin, I agree with you that there are MANY people who do things just to rile other people up and many others that probably deserve to be banned for things they do... BUT I don't think that punishing EVERYONE is the way to go...

You said you were looking for ideas on how to fix this, but MMO's have been around for years and so has this problem... there is no easy fix to it, and you're not going to see it in this game...

The only thing that would work is to have people standing by in real time with you, seeing what you are seeing, and making a judgement call on the action... barring that there is not REAL way to solve the issue...

SOT · Jul 19, 2005, 03:46 AM // 03:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainGuru

I believe you mean troll post, but I think the poster had good intention, he did't realize the problem that the idea would create if it was applied so cut him some slack.

Well...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Talesin Darkbriar

I knew when I authored this thread that I was wide open for any cheap shots people wanted to take, and several of you took careful aim.

Hmm...

All I'm saying is, calling a large portion of the people you are trying to convince a "moron" is not a good debate tactic. And it is not supposed to be going on here. If I cannot do it, neither can anyone else. End of sentence.

Ultimate_Gaara · Jul 19, 2005, 05:21 AM // 05:21

why does this guy thing slaping a fee on something will make it better? having money doesnt make you smart

one big problem with slaping a fee on guild wars is the fact that its not built the way a paying monthy game is (what i mean is its not as replayable as a "real" MMO should be)...baicly if they ever did slap a fee on they would have to completely redesign the entire game, which i would have to say is a major flaw with your plan

one example of how making a fee for the game will not reduce the amount of morons, one of my friends use to play wow (which you pay for.. duh) and he joined a guild, stayed for a week, gained the leaders trust, and then asked for a wepon the leader had so the leader gave the wepon to my friend and then my friend laughed, told the leader to go "f" himself and quit the guild... see your plan just kinda backfired didnt it?

to wrap this sort little rant up GW was not made for a fee, Anet is too nice to make a fee, and kids with rich parents can be morons... however id be glad to ask Anet to make your account have a fee just because it seems you love to spend money so much

(talking to whoever said there should be a fee)

sino-soviet · Jul 19, 2005, 07:39 AM // 07:39

I will admit this before I start to rant. Paying a monthly fee would make me leave the game forever. I am only 17, and I don't have the money nor the tolerance to shell out 10-15$ a month to play a game which was hyped up as exactly the opposite.

However,the idea of a monthly fee is a double-edged sword. First is the community; I don't think it would create a better one. Plenty of morons and nerds being funded by their parents exist in P2P mmorpgs, which is exactly what GW would be(and be expected to be) with the introduction of a monthly fee. Many players would leave, and the allure would most certainly not be stronger and attract more players, as we can see with many opinions in this thread. Guild wars has a reputation in the online rpg world as one which does NOT charge monthly fees. Something such as a fee when deliberately hyped up as the opposite would completely undermine the entire premise of the game. Much of the allure of Guild Wars has been solely due to its advertising (some of it false) and lack of a monthly fee. Granted, Guild Wars has not come even close to living up to these gameplay innovations, but a change, in my eyes, is criminal. I would demand compensation for this injustice.

With the introduction of a monthly fee, it would fix all of the problems which fuel the massive amounts of complaints we see on this forum. Anet would be able to stream content continuously, new areas, weapons, and a larger world to explore. But what would Guild wars be like then? Exactly like every other MMorpg out there. Guild wars is what it is today solely because of the uniqueness of NOT having a monthly fee and being able to endure massive amounts of players and engage players without fee. Instancing, streaming, skill over hours played, eliminating grind ( to some extent) is what makes Guild Wars shine. As stated, this bar has not been reached by any stretch of the imagination, but add a monthly fee, and you've got a game which is no better than any other MMORPG out there.

Darksci · Jul 19, 2005, 11:36 AM // 11:36

I dont need to bother about reading all the posts.

If ANet starts to charge a monthly/yearly fee. I'll quit.

Old Dood · Jul 19, 2005, 11:53 AM // 11:53

Talesin Darkbriar layed a post out in the open. It is not a popular post...but, he at least used his brain and made a suggestion. Build on that suggestion instead of attacking it. It is easier to Destroy then Build.

That being said....I have some more "Ideas". Instead of charging a monthly fee. When the expansion comes out charge $75.00 to $100.00. A Flat fee.

Also if someone is caught for violating the EULA or what ever it is called have them Branded on thier character for X amount of time. If they keep violating the rules after so many allowed violations then they are banned. I would think having a big red Brand right on thier character would let the community know what kind of A-hole they are. Or it it could be a big old Sandwich Board on thier front and back of thier character. Something to humiliate the violater and warn others of what they might be getting into if they deal with this person. You could wave your mouse over the character and then see a bubble stateing the crimes/violations commited.

Calimar · Jul 19, 2005, 12:04 PM // 12:04

You know, old warrior dood... that's exactly what they're doing: charging a flat fee. You don't buy the BOX. I can have the game downloading it. I can have a friend burn me a copy. Hell, I can have a friend install it and forget about it anyway. What you pay is the ACCOUNT - so you see, you already pay a flat fee.

I do agree on the brand-the-offender thing: of course for minor offenses. Cheating, and botting should be dealth with a clean "R&D": Revoke & Denial. I revoke your right to play (by the EULA) and deny you any further access (I won't allow you to buy another code, or to use it if you bought it) - maybe even for a few months or till the next expansion. Easy.

QUOTING:
"With the introduction of a monthly fee, it would fix all of the problems which fuel the massive amounts of complaints we see on this forum."

I disagree. I agree with your general idea, I just disagree with this sentence: it would fix NO problem and NO complaint. A.Net ALREADY has the most dedicated developers I've heard of so far. They do fix problems as they come out. Hastily made expansions won't improve the game. It takes TIME and effort to balance things, and GW has a great balance, a hasty update could ruin it all.

Morons come from every social stratus so paying wouldn't stop them, see other MMORPGs. On the contrary, many of us (including me) would think something on the lines of "why should I spend my money paying to be harassed by teenage kids that have had no education from their parents!?" and quit. Right now, GW is great - except for players. I'll stay because I can stand a bit or a lot of harassment for a game I like. But if I have to stand harassment AND a monthly fee.... well. Dunno about that - I'd probably quit.

GW is a great game, it's the players that are poor souls. Now fix the problem (idiots), not the game. The "aura of friendlyness/unfriendliness" that someone brought up works perfectly. I'd work on THAT if I were A.Net.

Aniewiel · Jul 19, 2005, 12:09 PM // 12:09

I suggested this is another thread about enforcing the EULA and parts of it are pertinent to this discussion:

Quote:

Given the relative size of ANet, it's impossible, as Gaile said, for them to be in all places at all times. There is simply -no way- to police the game. That said, I do agree that if the EULA isn't going to be enforced (specifically the language/abuse/griefing part of it, in this instance), then it either needs to be toned down or something needs to be put into effect to help rectify the problem.

There are a couple of solutions:

1. Put in a server wide word censor. If someone types the "f" word, it automatically comes back "shnickies". Of course, the problem here is that you have to have someone exhaustively go through and try to come up with EVERY possible naughty word that your mother would wash your mouth out with soap for using. It's tawdry.

2. Report, report, report. I do like, Spartan2, your idea of the "accumulation-to-ban" system. When a person is reported to ANet, they read over the logs. If the "offense" warrants a black mark, it is given. X number of blackmarks equal certain consequences:

X = gold wipe
XX = item/weapons/armor wipe
XXX = temporary suspension of account (say 2-3 days)
XXXX = longer and final suspension of account (7-21 days)
XXXXX = CD Key/Account ban--permanent

Let 'em complain. They signed the EULA and there have to be consequences for actions. In the good old Blizzard days, it was -very effective- when they would post that they had permanently banned 20,000 CD keys for using hack programs.

But ANet does need to either enforce the regulations that we all signed one way or the other. Player policing would doubtless be a HORRIBLE idea.

A monthly fee will never clean up the idiots around here. In fact I would guess that MORE idiots would come out of the woodwork since they would feel justified asking for unreasonable things based on their monthly fee.

Charrbane · Jul 19, 2005, 12:10 PM // 12:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jwh6913

the day they start charging, I will leave GW forever

Same here. I'll never in a million years pay a monthly fee to play a game.

I highly doubt a monthly fee will get rid of whiners and lamers. Since when is it a rule that people with money, who don't mind paying monthly fees, aren't idiots or whiny? Heh.

Ultimate_Gaara · Jul 19, 2005, 12:26 PM // 12:26

most of the people paying for online games are probly kids who just think like my friends do "its not my money, so why do i care?", just another reason money doesnt solve the problem...